How did you meet Baron Thyssen-Bornemisza?
I was visiting friends in Sardinia, and we were invited on Heini’s yacht, the Hanse, for a party. I found him quiet and polite but he seemed bored with the superficiality of the social life he was living. We played backgammon and talked about art. He was very competitive at games, but his main passion obviously was art, and he was so articulate, telling little stories about great pictures. I found him fascinating from the start.

TITA AND Hans Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza

Did he talk about his father’s original collection?
Of course. His father lived in The Hague for many years before moving his family and the collection to the home that became Heini’s favorite, the Villa Favorita on Lake Lugano in Switzerland. When his father died, his collection of over 500 Old Masters, which he created a foundation for, was divided among the four children. Heini always felt the collection should stay together. He made an arrangement with his sisters, Margit and Gaby, to let those left to them remain at the gallery at Villa Favorita, or they could take their favorites for their lifetime and agree to will them back to the collection when they died. All he wanted was for the collection to remain intact, and his sisters agreed. His brother went off to live in Cuba, taking his share with him. When he died, it is thought that Castro might have confiscated some pictures, and perhaps some of them ended up in Russia.

When the collection outgrew the Villa Favorita, and museum curators were begging your husband to donate it to them, he said you had persuaded him to house it in Spain. Is this true?
Yes and no. Of course, I wanted my country to have the collection, but many others had more than an equal chance to get it, and all of them came up wanting. It took years. Prince Charles came to call, but the British offered to house it either in the Docklands or up in Manchester, neither of which was a fitting location for a collection of such importance. The Swiss expected Heini to just sort of give it to them for nothing, typically Swiss. The Getty brought a maquette of what it would build to house the collection in California, but with no guarantee that it would retain the Thyssen-Bornemisza name.

The late Duke of Badajoz, whose wife is the sister of the King of Spain, was the important connection. Partially due to his efforts, Spain agreed to refurbish the palace. At first the government was to pay $80 million to share control of the foundation, and then agreed to pay $5 million a year for a nine-and-a-half-year lease, begun in 1992. However, in 1993, the government decided to buy it outright for $350 million.

Do you have a favorite in the collection?
Gauguin’s Mata Mua has always been my favorite. It is now in the museum in Madrid so the world can see it. Heini always felt that art should be shared, not locked away for only a few to enjoy. The world came to us at the Villa Favorita to see the collection, whereas his father rarely let anyone in to see it.

What about the baron’s five children? Surely they wanted some of the art for themselves.
Heini gave some pictures to them, but as the collection belongs to a foundation, he could not just give them away at will. We had a very complicated lawsuit before he died. The foundation was based in Bermuda, and everyone wanted something. But that is over and we are all on friendly terms.

When did you first conceive the idea of your own collection?
I think it was always there after I met Heini. After all, we traveled the world for years showing the collection everywhere. We made a huge exchange with Russia; the Russians sent us a group of rarely seen Impressionists and we sent some of our greatest Old Masters. It was huge success. I will never forget Heini in the dining room of the villa the night of the opening party. “Look,” he said. “There are 10 Gauguins hanging around us. They are moving. I feel as if we are living among them.”

Heini gave me some favorite pictures, and I remember thinking, “I should make a collection.” He encouraged me in every way. I am actually following in his footsteps, just as he followed in his father’s. He was my tutor, the best in the world, and I was his devoted pupil.

I never felt that my collection could achieve the greatness that his had. It takes more than one lifetime to assemble that kind of collection. Mine now encompasses over 700 pictures, including Corot, Monet, Sisley and Pissarro. I also have collected the finest Andalusian and Catalan paintings—enough for two shows, which are on view in my gallery this summer.

The Spanish government agreed to commit $40 million, which included buying two buildings overlooking the gardens of the Thyssen-Bornemisza, and fixing them up, if I would agree to lend my collection for 11 years, four of which have passed. Again, following in the master’s footsteps, I hope the pictures will eventually belong to Spain. I am vice president of the Thyssen-Bornemisza and the Carmen Thyssen-Bornemisza foundations for life, and I spend my life now working at it, as I always did with Heini. I have had 30 shows all over the world, including one in China. 

What guides you now that your husband is gone?
I will never forget Heini saying over and over to me, “If the choice is between money or paintings, always take the paintings.”

Do you think your country might reward you in some way for all you have done?
Perhaps. That is up to them.